What does the new government mean for mental health? Kadra Abdinasir, the Centre’s Associate Director of Policy, sits down with Thea to discuss the impact of new announcements and what the Government needs to prioritise to build a mentally healthier nation.
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Listen to the episode on Spotify or Apple Podcasts. The full transcript is available below.
Show notes
- Read Andy’s blog on the machinery of government needed to build a mentally healthier nation
- Check out our briefings on the need for a mental health policy test and a mental health commissioner
- Check out our report, A dual crisis, looking at child poverty and mental health
- Support our work by donating
Alethea Joshi (AJ): Hello and welcome to Centre for Mental Health’s podcast. Centre for Mental Health challenges policies, systems and society so that everyone can have better mental health. I’m Thea Joshi, and each episode, I speak with our guests about mental health and social justice. And today I sat down with Kadra Abdinasir, our Associate Director of Policy, to reflect on the new government’s first month or so and what new announcements mean for the UK’s mental health. We talked about the new mental health bill, child poverty and what the new government needs to prioritise to build a mentally healthier nation. Just a reminder that Centre for Mental Health is a charity, and we rely on your support to drive change, so please consider donating. The link is in the show notes. Hope you enjoy this conversation. Welcome, Kadra, again to the podcast.
Kadra Abdinasir (KA): Thanks for having me again, Thea.
AJ: It’s so great to have this time. And you know I was thinking, I’m just really looking forward to having a bit of time to reflect on the last month or so, because it just feels like it’s been so hectic. You know, we had the pre election period. We were working hard to kind of get our call for the cross government mental health plan out. We were also doing quite a lot to promote the voting rights of people with mental illness. Then we had the election, and then we had two big reports being launched at the Centre, and it just feels like now we finally have a little bit of time just to sort of breathe and reflect on what’s happened.
KA: Yeah, no, lots have been happening, as you said. Definitely a snap election. And yeah, it’s all been fast moving. But even as the new government entered, they’re also progressing quite quickly on things. So yeah, it’s not looking like it’s going to be a quiet summer or autumn for us.
AJ: No, quite. And so I’m really looking forward to just sort of basically asking you to fill me in on what’s been happening and what this what this means for the Centre and for mental health in the UK right now. So yeah, I think we’re maybe around six weeks into a new government, and a lot seems to have happened already. Could you talk us through, what are some of the key developments from a mental health perspective?
KA: Yeah. So I thought if we start off maybe reflecting on some of the pledges Labour made ahead of the election on mental health, that might just be a good starting point, because they set out a number of intentions for mental health, and some of it, they’re enacting on quite quickly, and others will follow. So there were a number of key commitments Labour made as part of their manifesto for mental health, all positive stuff. But we await the detail, like I said.
So, they talked about expanding the workforce, the mental health workforce, for example, by 8,500 new members of staff. So to kind of help address the waiting lists that we know exist in services. And then related to that point, they do really want to take a close look at waiting lists across health, including mental health, and finding ways and methods to help bring them down. For children and young people, they talked about a specialist mental health professional in every primary and secondary school. Something we’ve been working quite closely on as part of the fund the hubs campaign, is that they’ve committed to a network of young futures hubs across the country. And then a range of changes to legislation they also pledged. So, you know, reform to the Mental Health Act, you know, a new children’s wellbeing bill, a new law to look at ending conversion practices as well. So it’s all kicking off.
And then, yeah, I guess we can have a bit of a chat about then what went into the King’s Speech. Because some things were, you know, outlined in the manifesto, and others were a bit of a surprise, a positive surprise for us. So that happened quite quickly as well. And, you know, we always look forward to the King’s Speech as a good opportunity to introduce laws that can better protect and promote people’s mental health. So it was really great to see the long overdue mental health bill introduced as part of that. So this is really about overhauling the 1983 Mental Health Act, so that you know, people who are detained under the Mental Health Act and in hospital settings are treated with respect, and you know their rights and dignities are upheld. So that was a positive announcement in the King’s Speech. We also heard of a new children’s wellbeing bill, which sounds a little bit like a patchwork of lots of different things.
AJ: So yeah, there were things that we were seeing in the Labour manifesto that seemed relatively promising. Again, you know, we wait to see what happens, but it sounded quite promising. We were looking forward to some more details on stuff. And as you say, things have moved at quite a pace in these first few weeks. So what have we kind of seen as a result of King’s Speech, which was obviously sort of mid July? Tell us a bit more about that.
KA: Yeah, affecting young people’s like, wellbeing particularly within education. So it will include things like mandating breakfast clubs for young people, improving school uniform access, because we know there’s, like, huge disparities in cost and also looking at perhaps a new register for home education. As a children young people’s advocacy organisation and the Coalition that we host, we would also like to see some other things in there, perhaps to better promote young people’s mental health and wellbeing. So the detail on that is still, I guess, been ironed out a little bit.
And then the other positive thing that we’ve been calling for at the Centre is a new bill to end conversion practices so that, you know, we have a more sort of trans inclusive approach within services. And you know that horrible practice is put to an end, rightly so. So those were some of the sort of key highlights. And then there were other things that I guess tangentially relate to people’s mental health, like the renters reform bill to make sure that people who are renting and, you know, the housing market really better protects people’s rights and entitlement, because we know that the rising cost of living is something that’s affecting a lot of people’s mental health. So that sounds like a positive initiative there, too.
AJ: Okay, so lots of kind of encouraging noises, and positive progress, I think. You mentioned earlier on the youth futures hubs, and I was just really interested to know a little bit more about that, because obviously, as you say, we’ve been campaigning with other youth mental health organisations around these early support hubs. Could you tell us a little bit more about the youth future hubs?
KA: Yeah, so this is a great new programme that the government will be introducing shortly. And in the manifesto, they talked about providing open access mental health support for children and young people in every community. So that’s really promising, and they earmarked about £95 million for that, based on applying the VAT to private schools. So there’s some funding involved to kind of realise that ambition. And potentially it might be something that falls under the Home Office’s mission to have more safer communities. And I guess, from our perspective, something that’s really critical to early support hubs, and the benefit and value of it really is that it helps generate multiple outcomes for children and young people. So you know, as well as supporting their mental health and wellbeing, it will have knock on effects on other areas, such as education, youth work and the youth sector, and also around tackling serious youth violence. So it’s looking like, potentially, this will be a major sort of cross government initiative, which is, you know, can only be a good thing, I guess. But you know, we want to make sure that young people get good quality mental health provision as part of that.
AJ: And so alongside that, I think you mentioned that there’s also been developments in terms of various mental health support and provision. Talk us through a little bit more on that.
KA: Yeah. So the other sort of major pledge relating to children and young people in the manifesto was that there would be mental health support workers available to every primary and secondary school. And we think this is a positive commitment, and hopefully something that builds on the rollout of mental health support teams. I think something that’s quite key for us is that this is rolled out alongside a wider sort of programme to embed a whole school and college approach to mental health. So another thing Labour announced is a review of the curriculum, and we know there’s great opportunities there to make sure mental health and wellbeing form part of a strengthened statutory curriculum. So watch this space on that.
And then another announcement that came was that Wes Streeting had commissioned Lord Darzi to carry out an independent, rapid review into the performance of health services in England, looking primarily at the NHS, but I think also other aspects. This is really, really rapid. So by the time we launch this podcast, the call for evidence would have closed, sadly, and Lord Darzi will be hopefully reporting back to government around September time. Off the back of his findings, we think that potentially, it will feed into a new 10 year health plan that the government have already announced as well, and within that health plan, mental health will also be featured. So you know, we see that as an upcoming opportunity to take that more longer-term approach to health and wellbeing.
AJ: In terms of this health plan that you mentioned, obviously the Centre and many others have been calling for a long time now for a cross government mental health plan. Obviously, this is talking about health, what are the kind of distinctions there?
KA: That’s a really great question. So we know that this is principally looking at health services and the NHS. And we know that the first phase of the NHS long term plan has come to an end. So it seems like this will be a renewed, longer-term vision for the NHS, certainly, but you know, we will try our best to push for the government to take a cross departmental approach, because we know that that’s quite critical to like realising the scale of change and transformation that’s needed across mental health services. So it’s another sort of watch this space in terms of what happens with that and something that potentially the government may consult on at a later stage as well.
AJ: Thanks that’s really helpful to know, and I’m sure we’ll come back to that later. I was also really interested you mentioned about Wes Streeting announcing this plan. I think it might have been his first speech as health secretary. He, you know, said quite clearly, I believe the NHS is broken and I think it was just really interesting to kind of feel the reactions to that. And I think maybe there were quite a few people who felt kind of almost like validated by that. And, you know, staff who are really feeling on their knees at the moment and on the front lines. But obviously, you know, he acknowledged the amazing work that staff are doing, and I guess I was just interested to know what your take was on that?
KA: Yeah, absolutely. I mean, I agree with his sentiment in the sense that the NHS, you know, as a whole, is broken. But I think a key thing he said that is that it’s not beaten. There is so much groundwork there and great stuff happening in pockets across the entire system. However, you know, the reality is that the scale of health challenges in the nation has risen quite sharply. We only see it within our space of mental health, but there’s all sorts of like growing health burdens across the system, and we know that this has happened against the backdrop of like austerity and less funding going to the NHS overall. So you know, it doesn’t come as a surprise that, you know practitioners working across the NHS are having to do more with less. You know, it’s very difficult circumstances, and then we just weren’t, as a nation, prepared for the additional shock the pandemic brought on. So, yeah, you know, unfortunately, the system was brought to its knees in that sense. But I think there’s a good opportunity, and this is why, I guess it’s quite key we take a cross government approach, because it can’t just be all on the NHS to resolve all these issues, many of which, you know, stem from social injustices in society. So if we can take that prevention, and I know Wes Streeting was talking a lot about prevention and health and tackling social determinants, I think we can make, you know, a bigger difference.
AJ: I think it was really helpful that you just explained that a little bit more, because we do bang on a lot here at the moment, particularly about this cross government approach. And it can kind of be like, okay, well, why cross government? And it’s just like making it very clear, as you said, that a lot of the volume of mental distress, the volume of mental ill health, is being driven by, as you said, these social determinants and these social factors. And so we cannot just put that all on the NHS, it won’t actually solve the root causes.
KA: Yeah, no, absolutely. And that’s why the commitments around mental health in schools and hubs in the community are exciting prospects, because, you know, it provides other avenues and sources of support for for individuals. And so hopefully, these are all great initiatives we can build from and work on a more sort of comprehensive approach and plan.
AJ: And as we’ve said many times, you know, we’ve seen with, like, the decades of austerity, all of the public health kind of side of things, all of the prevention side of things, all the local authority work being really cut to the bone. And so I guess I’m sort of tentatively hopeful that we might be seeing a bit of a return to the recognition of the vital need for prevention work in really tackling the volume and the weight of mental health problems in the in the UK.
KA: Absolutely.
AJ: Just interrupting our conversation briefly with a quick plea. Centre for Mental Health is an independent charity. So if you appreciate this podcast, you can support our work, either by following and rating this podcast or by donating at centreformentalhealth.org.uk/donate. We really appreciate it. Right, back to the show.
So obviously, when we have a new incoming government, there are lots of new policy developments, lots of new announcements that we’ve just been discussing, but we also see certain things that had been in the pipeline from the previous government, perhaps being shelved. Is there anything like that around mental health?
KA: Yeah, like you said, as well as, like, introducing new measures, there was, like, some positive steps taken to address some of the things that we already knew were likely to harm people’s mental health. So for example, we know for refugees and migrants, Keir Starmer was quite clear in the scrapping of the Rwanda refugee scheme, which would have seen sanctuary seekers arriving into the UK, be then taken to Rwanda to experience their immigration processing there. Ridiculous policy, but we are pleased to see that go. And then, I guess, related to this, also the use of the Bibby Stockholm, which is the barge that, you know, was being used to accommodate sanctuary seekers, that’s also been scrapped. And we know, you know, in the lead up to the general election, unfortunately, lots of really toxic debate and conversations about migrants in this country. And we know that many people who come here to seek sanctuary have left very traumatising circumstances already and then to face further discrimination or to not have their rights respected in this country, that was, you know, a major concern to us.
AJ: Yeah, thank you for clarifying that. I know that as the Centre we’d expressed our really profound concerns about both the Rwanda scheme and also Bibby Stockholm and the usage of that and so it just feels like at least we’ve seen some turnaround from policies that were actively harming refugees’ mental health. So that is a promising sign.
KA: No, absolutely. And also, prior to the election, there were also some other worrying policies relating to getting people back into work, particularly for those with mental health problems and long-term conditions and disabilities, by basically reforming assessments for various benefits and social security support. So one of the things we were looking at, for example, was proposals to change the work capabilities assessment. And you know, this looks at basically setting different benefit thresholds for people with disabilities and long-term conditions, and you know, whether or not they can take on certain types of work or not. And you know, we were concerned that this was likely to discriminate against people with mental health difficulties. This government is also quite interested in looking at raising the employment rate in the country. And we know that people with mental health problems and people with serious mental illness, they can actually lead healthy and fulfilling work lives, but sometimes people just need that extra support and understanding workplaces, and that support in helping to look for work and remain in work as well, because we know retention is like a huge issue. You know, we need to have more mentally healthy workplaces, basically, to make that happen. And you know, it’s not just about forcing people back into work without help.
AJ: I mean exactly, and I think we’re clear that we’re not saying that work can’t be really helpful for people’s mental health, but we know from the evidence that it has to be something that they choose to do, that coercion just produces awful results in terms of harming people’s mental health and actually not being constructive. And we know that, as you say, people need the right support to both find work but also retain work. And that’s kind of what we see with the Individual Placement and Support approach that we have been championing here at the Centre for like decades, is that when people, even with quite severe mental illness, are really given support to find work that they want and to retain it, that can be really transformational for their mental health. And so we’re not saying that we are anti people with mental health problems working. We know that lots of people want to and would like the opportunity to it’s just that we’re saying that kind of rhetoric around getting people back into work, or that minimises distress, or that minimides the barriers to work, is actually completely counterproductive, and it’s not compassionate and it’s it’s not evidence based. And so it was encouraging last week to hear Rachel Reeves sort of repudiating her predecessor’s comments around getting people back into work and mental health and sick leave and all of these things. I think there’s a long way to go, isn’t there? But that was an encouraging start.
KA: No, absolutely. And you know, like you said, quite rightly, Individual Placement and Support, we know that this is an evidence based approach, and it was positive in the last government that the NHS long term plan was seeking to sort of expand that provision, and we hope this new government builds on that. So, yeah, taking that evidence based and compassionate approach, I think, you know, will yield the best benefits. Because, you know, as you’ve probably covered in this podcast previously, the costs to not addressing mental health are huge, £300 billion a year. So, yeah, it’s a bit of a false equivalence in terms of, you know, providing social security versus having this huge, sort of, like financial cost, you know, so just building what you’re saying there.
AJ: There’s also in recent weeks, since the new government and then the King’s Speech, there’s been a lot of discussion about what wasn’t in the King’s Speech and what hasn’t featured in the new announcements, particularly, perhaps especially, the two child limit and scrapping that. Would you mind talking us through a little bit about that? Because I know there’s been a lot of media attention on it, it would be useful just to clarify what it is for everyone listening, because I know there’s been some confusion around that and why we think that, alongside other things, is so important.
KA: Yeah, definitely. So I guess I’ll touch on our report that we published in July called A dual crisis. So this was a report we produced in partnership with the Children & Young People’s Mental Health Coalition, and Save the Children UK, and we called it A dual crisis because we know that there’s been a rapid rise in the levels of child poverty in this country. So in 2022/2023 about 4.3 million children and young people in the UK were growing up in poverty, which is, you know, really shocking, a sharp rise from, I think, 3.6 million a decade before that. So, and then we’ve seen this happen in tandem with the rise of mental health problems amongst children and young people. And the two are actually quite closely related. So we know that growing up in poverty is a significant risk factor for poor mental health. And it’s a sort of vicious cycle that unfortunately many children and families are caught up in. And obviously it goes without saying, poverty has a range of like devastating consequences for families, including for their mental health. And you know, in our work, hearing and reviewing the anecdotal experiences that children and families shared via Save the Children UK, you know, parents were having to, like, make really difficult decisions between heating and eating.
And then we heard lots about how the social security system, through the implementation of like, conditionality and sanctions to social security also was fuelling distress, and compounding the difficulties that families were facing. And although this is something that obviously affects the adults who are the ones in receipt of this income, it was also being acutely felt by children and young people based on what we heard. So, many heartbreaking examples of like children concealing the difficulties, or like shouldering the difficulties their families were facing. For example, you know, having to, like, find money to be able to get to school, and, you know, selling items and things like that, those were some of the kind of examples we heard. So for us, you know, the two child limit is like a really important step that the government can take, scrapping that in helping to lift many families out of poverty. You know, we know that currently, about 43% of children in families with three or more children are living in poverty, according to the Joseph Rowntree Foundation. So this is why this is important, yeah.
AJ: So 43% of families who have three or more children are living in poverty in the UK, one of the richest countries in the world.
KA: Yeah. Shocking, disturbing. So in our report, I’ll tell you a little bit about, like, what we’ve called for, and then maybe what the government are doing in this space, because there’s been lots of noise, like you said. But, ultimately, like with mental health, we really want to see a cross government strategy to address poverty in this country for children and adults alike. You know, we touched on tackling the social determinants of poor mental health, poverty being one of the key ones. Our partners, Save the Children UK, they’ve got a campaign on calling for a child lock, and that’s a mechanism to help increase financial support for families by introducing a double lock on children’s social security entitlements and making sure that this increases depending on earnings or like, the rate of inflation, because we know that shocks and changes in the inflation rate can mean that some families will be worse off if that’s not protected. So quite similar to the pensioner triple lock. And obviously we would want the new government to reform conditionality as a mechanism and the means testing sort of approach within social security.
And then lastly, we were clear that we really, really need to invest in mental health support and services for young people, including within school settings, because that’s often when you know these issues become identified by, you know, teachers constantly. You see it in the press, teachers having to, like, buy children school lunch or items of school uniform. And, you know, really grateful to those that do that, but it’s not their job to do that. We should have good support for families in those circumstances. So yeah, like you said, the two child limit has been dominating the press because there was some debate in Parliament around introducing a measure to scrap it immediately. But what this government have done currently is establish a new child poverty task force that will look at creating a child poverty strategy, which is something they’ve committed to, and as part of that, they want to see how they might be able to, like, afford and roll out the scrapping of the two child limit, potentially.
AJ: And you touched there about conditionality and sanctions. And for those of us who are not close to this space, in terms of the whole kind of social security policy system, what do we actually mean by benefit conditionality?
KA: Yeah, so I guess this isn’t something that was necessarily introduced by the last government, because the previous Labour government, it’s been a process of like increasing the use of conditionality and sanctions within the social security system. And essentially that means if people are being supported by the government financially, in order to incentivise people to not rely on it in the longer term or in order to get back into work, if you like, there would be a series of requirements and fulfillments that people have to do in order to receive their benefits. So, for example, it might be demonstrating that you are taking training courses in order to build up your skills and improve your employability, essentially, or you might have to, like, demonstrate that you’re consistently applying for roles. And so, you know, that might be a conditionality that’s implemented. So it depends on people’s circumstances, which types of conditions are placed on the social security they receive. But essentially, it’s a way to sort of incentivise people not relying on it in the in the long term if they don’t have to.
AJ: Okay, and so I guess in that way, it does go hand in hand with sanctions. I know this is crude, but it’s almost the carrot and stick of kind of, you know, do this thing. If you don’t, you will have your benefits taken away. And as you said in our report, A dual crisis, we do talk about the fact of we heard from parents who were talking about the difficulties of just navigating the system itself and the complexity of that when you’re already under pressure, you’re already in distress, you’re already in poverty, and also then the sanctions that can come with that, the risk, then, of eviction, of homelessness, for people who have young children, it just paints a really, really scary picture, and it’s kind of inevitable then that your mental health is going to suffer majorly as a result.
KA: Absolutely, that’s right. And another thing we heard from some of the families we spoke to is the constant need to, like, update your information as well. So the little change you might have in your income, then you have to report and be reassessed. And sometimes, you know, in the cost of living crisis, being paid, I don’t know, £10 pounds or something a week isn’t a major increase in income materially for families. So there’s stuff like that where you, if you’re not, you know, updating regularly your information, then you also get sanctions. So, you know, all sorts of challenges there that we hope this new child poverty task force would look at quite closely, and also for them to consider the wider impacts of child poverty on young people and families’ lives, including mental health. So that’s certainly something we’ll be pushing for.
AJ: Thanks. It’s really helpful to look into that a bit more, and obviously we will link to that report in the show notes. I guess I’m kind of interested to know what else you felt has been missing so far, or maybe just what the new government really needs to prioritise to turn the tide on poor mental health.
KA: Yeah, great last question. So, as you know, our CEO Andy Bell wrote a really excellent blog recently on the machinery of government. So these are sort of the mechanisms that we need in order to develop good, lasting mental health policy solutions, if you like. So I think, in our view, so far, that hasn’t really been a consideration in the conversation. So, you know, we’ve already talked about the need to have a cross government plan for mental health. We haven’t yet had an announcement speaking to that, and that’s something, you know, will continue to call for. Another aspect in the machinery of government concept, so there’s three key components, so the cross government plan, but also a mental health commissioner, which is something the joint committee on the mental health bill recommended last year. And we know that a mental health commissioner role exists in other countries, and works quite well, not only in holding the government to account, but also championing people’s lived experiences across the country, and also incentivising and promoting cross departmental working at that national level. So that’s something we’ve written a blog about, that we can also link to.
AJ: So that would be quite similar to, like, the Children’s Commissioner, the Victims Commissioner. So it’s that kind of point in government and a constant voice championing mental health.
KA: That’s right. And, you know, obviously we really are grateful there is a mental health minister, so that’s, you know, the most accountable ministerial role, but having this role to sort of support that cross departmental working will be quite key, and having that focus on prevention perhaps as part of that. And then the last aspect was a mental health policy test, and Callum and Andy worked on a really excellent briefing, which speaks to this in a bit more detail. But this would mean that we take a mental health in all policies approach. So as policies are developed, we consider the mental health impacts, and these are assessed quite consistently across national and even maybe, like local government and integrated care system levels. There’s no reason why it couldn’t be. So having those three pillars, we think, is quite critical to, you know, having good mental health initiatives across the country.
And then there was a few other things that we thought, from our perspective, still need resolving. So, you know, we know that we’re under very difficult financial circumstances and times at the moment, but we do desperately need a sustainable funding settlement for mental health, and that this is across government. So addressing the long-standing holes in council budgets, for example, we know, has really hampered public mental health support for the nation. So it will be really interesting to see what comes out in the autumn statement later this year.
And another aspect also that’s critical to the success of any of the policies we discussed is the workforce. So it’s quite critical that we can continue to grow the mental health workforce, tackling issues around recruitment and retention as well, because a lot of people have really, really struggled off the back of the pandemic. You know, we talked earlier about the NHS being broken, and this is one of the areas where we definitely see long standing gaps and growing vacancies in key roles like mental health nursing or psychologists. So again, there’s a really great briefing we produced in partnership with Mind and the NHS Confederation, which speaks to some of the challenges, but also outlines a vision for how we might continue to develop the workforce.
AJ: Yeah, and this idea that it’s not just about more people doing exactly the same thing, but actually having, as you say, like a vision for a future workforce that meets the needs that we’re seeing at the moment, which might not look the same as it has in the past, having a bit more of a creative approach and a strategic approach to what kind of posts we actually need to meet people’s needs now.
KA: Absolutely. And we haven’t touched on this yet, but not losing sight of the critical role of the voluntary and community sector within this. So when we’re talking about a long-term strategy and the workforce, increasingly the voluntary and community sector has been playing such a key role. So we can’t just look at, you know, statutory services there. They’re, a key partner, as are digital providers and many others. So just really taking that comprehensive approach, I’d say.
AJ: Yeah. Super helpful.
KA: And then lastly, I guess, you know, our partners, who work more closely in this space will know lots more about this, but you know, we haven’t really seen a comprehensive strategy for adult social care, and that’s something that’s quite key. We know that mental health, for many older people, deteriorates over time, and you know, they also play a key role within mental health provision for that cohort, as well as carers as well. So lots of debate recently around the support that carers receive from the state. So I would say that’s another area that we want to continue to analyse and see what more can be done, so that we take that, you know, whole person approach,
AJ: Yeah, and as very much a non specialist within policy, my sense is that social care and adult social care for people with mental health problems seems to be one of these things that we come back to again and again, and it just seems like it’s kind of been put on a back burner or shelved or ignored. Maybe that’s too harsh, but it feels that way for years, for generations. And it’s just that the situation is not getting any better for people, and as you say, presumably this is all linked with local authority funding as well. So yeah, that seems like a really critical priority.
KA: Yes, definitely. And, you know, we would hope that this 10 year review of the health system also considers social care. I think one of the positive moves about changing the Department of Health to the Department of Health and Social Care is like, let’s not forget the social care part and the two systems really work hand in hand. So, yeah, I think you’re quite right to say it has been overlooked for too long. I think that’s a fair statement. So another watch this space area, I think, for us, as things develop.
AJ: Well, wow, Kadra, it’s been a whistle stop tour of the past sort of six weeks of a new government. But I’m so grateful to have had this time just to sit down with you and make sense of some of this stuff, kind of get a little bit of a temperature check on where we’re at the moment. We at the Centre will obviously continue to call for the things that we’ve been talking about, including this cross government mental health plan, including more support to bring people out of poverty. And I will link to all of the many things that we’ve discussed in the show notes. But for now, just thank you so much for joining me.
KA: Thank you, Thea. See you back on here soon.
AJ: Thanks for listening. You can join the fight against mental health inequalities by donating at centreformentalhealth.org.uk/donate or find the link in the notes. See you next time.
